You honestly like the Jack Nicholson “Joker” from the first Batman 1989 film starring Michael Keaton? Here are some reasons I hate that film so much. How Tim Burton is responsible for fucking the Batman franchise and came this close to ruining it.
First off, lets start off with the Joker played by Jack Nicholson himself. Ok, The Joker is NOT supposed to reveal his identity. He is not supposed to be revealed without the makeup and his real name is not supposed to be revealed. That was the number one rule with DC Comics. The Joker is not supposed to be revealed. But what does Tim Burton do? Right when the movie “Batman” starts off, it explains how the Joker turns into who he is, they first show the Joker as Jack without the makeup and his real name is Jack Napier in the film. Plus, the Nicholson Joker is fat and old when the actual Joker is supposed to be young.
Cesar Romero who played the Joker from the original TV series, the Joker’s real identity was never revealed once. No matter how amazing of an actor Jack Nicholson played his version of the Joker, his version sucks so bad because of the revealing of his identity.
Thankfully, Christopher Nolan stuck by the Joker’s rules by not revealing the Joker’s real identity in “The Dark Knight”.
The earlier Batman films from “Batman” (1989), “Batman: Returns”, “Batman: Forever” and “Batman and Robin” were such garbage, they never stayed true to the original comics. The film makers of those films just threw their own creation into them.
Christopher Nolan however, did not do that. Nolan did his homework by reading the Dark Knight comics, doing careful research on the characters so he can stay true to the Batman franchise. In “Batman: Begins” Christopher Nolan’s first film before “The Dark Knight”, if you know Batman’s history, you can very well believe Nolan stayed true to the original story. Batman witnessed his parents death as a child in a street robbery, this is what lead Bruce Wayne to become a crime fighting superhero to be trained as Batman, the Scarecrow was the first Batman villain in the comics, that is why Nolan had to start off with the Scarecrow in “Batman: Begins”, the Joker was the second villain.
Tim Burton screwed the Batman movies hard. And so did Joel Schumacher who did the other two “Batman: Forever” and “Batman and Robin”, they were also shitty movies that never stayed true to the comics.
This is why I respect Christopher Nolan so much. He probably saw the earlier films and said the same thing, “What the fuck? Why are Tim Burton and Joel Schumacher making shitty Batman flicks that are not true to the comics? It is time for me to get to work before they ruin it even more…”
So that’s what Nolan did, he went right to work asap on the Batman flicks before other film makers continue to ruin the series. Nolan saved the Batman franchise big time and if I ever meet the man in person, I would thank him so much for that!
Oh yeah, and for those who didn’t know this, “The Dark Knight” was adapted from “Batman: The Long Halloween” graphic novel by Jeph Loeb.
Kev
K'Brocking 
Scarecrow is not the first Bat Man villian. Despite the basic thugs, The Joker was the first Bat Man villian in the comics.
The only thing “The Dark Knight” took from The Long Halloween were the little bits and pieces of how Two Face came to be and the mob. More was adapted from “The Dark Knight Returns” by Frank Miller.
You can knock Burton all you want but the truth is if it was not for the Burton/Bat Man movies, Nolan’s movies would have never came to be. It is evolution. Schumacher can go fuck himself though. Worst director in history.
This is ridiculous. First of all, no, Scarecrow did not appear before the Joker in the comics, nor should that matter because the last movie I would want to see is one based on the early Batman comics.
Also, if not showing Joker without makeup “was the number one rule with DC Comics,” you might want to immediately alert Alan Moore, one the greatest comic writers of all time, the man who wrote The Killing Joke (as well as Watchmen and V For Vendetta), one of the best Joker stories ever written, and tell him that he shouldn’t have included Joker without makeup. I’m sure everyone should hate that book because it has a Joker origin story, right? At least all you comic book Einsteins do.
The idea that Tim Burton, the man who absolutely revived Batman as a cultural force, could somehow be accused of “screwing over” Batman is idiotic.
Your argument about the Joker makes absolutely no sense. Think about what you are saying for a second. You’re saying that Cesar Romero’s Joker is superior to Nicholson’s, simply because Batman including a Joker origin story. Let me ask you a question, asshole. Have you ever seen the episode of the old Batman TV series where the Joker builds a machine that will allow him to steal the surfing abilities of Gotham’s best surfer, so that all of the surf-crazy Gotham youths will join him in pillaging the city? No? Well fuck you, Batman ultimately beats Joker for the surf championship, and Batgirl wears a bathing suit (its awesome).
Now, is it really so great that this Joker didn’t have an origin story? Is that really the most important thing about the Joker? Or is the most important thing that he’s a murdering psychopath who takes comedic joy in what he does? Clearly, thats much more important than whether or not Joker has an origin story. And its something that Jack Nicholson pulled off wonderfully. I’ll take Jack Napier over Surfing Joker any day (and Cesar Romero was fatter and older than Nicholson).
Dark Knight is certainly my favorite Batman movie, and Ledger is certainly my favorite Joker. But Burton’s Batman and Nicholson’s Joker are both phenomenal.
You also need to think about the time period that Batman came out in. The last time most people had heard of the Joker, or Batman for that matter, was the campy 60’s show. Most people didn’t read the comics, and by that point, give two shits about the Joker. They remembered a silly clown fighting a silly pudgy guy in tights with cartoon words flying around. So forgive Burton for trying to give his audience a new context for the character, provide for a new and better understanding of the character, and tell a story about him that they would be interested in.
Its true that, today, Joker needs no introduction. He didn’t need one in Dark Knight, I’m so grateful he doesn’t get one. I love the way they riff on that, and play with the audience’s expectation of an origin. Its brilliant. But that is very much thanks to Burton and Nicholson. Dark Knight couldn’t have been made if Joker wasn’t already a villain that people knew about and wanted to see, and that happened thanks to Burton and Nicholson.
Tim Burton was the first man to ever bring Batman to the screen with the darkness of the comics, and his Joker origin story was similar in many ways to the one in Killing Joke, so it is rooted in the comics. And as a result of his movie, interest and sales of the comics increased significantly, as well as interest in more Batman movies, TV series, and merchandise.
I love the dynamic of Batman and Joker as two opposing forces that ultimately create and need each other. Its interesting, then, that in Batman, they literally did create each other. Napier kills Wayne’s parents, and Batman’s actions result in Napier taking a dip in his chemical bath. Its not an idea from the comics, and its not my preferred version of those character’s stories, but its an interesting one, and it helps to portray Batman as a man obsessed with his loss and bent on revenge. I’m a big enough person to not lose my head if a writer or filmmaker doesn’t do something in just the way I want them to, especially when they get so much else right.
Before you pretend to know something about Batman, you should learn some things about Batman. And then maybe you’ll pause to think before blasting the visionary who is in large part responsible for Batman’s revival on the big screen and off, and without whom, the Dark Knight would not exist.
Wow David you sound like a really pretentious jerk. Good luck with that.
Wow David you sound like a really pretentious jerk. Good luck with that.
The Joker was introduced to the comics in 1940, a few months after ‘The Batman’ began. So that’s the first.
Tim Burton was inspired by “The Killing Joke” in which The Joker has a back story, which is very cLoseLy Linked to Burton’s vision for his Batman mocie. BUT, even though You hear this whoLe backstory, the Joker says “If i have a past i prefer it to be muLtipLe choice.” In this way we have to reaLise that Burton’s onLy reaL fauLt was not mentioning this in some way.
And no, It was not based that cLoseLy on “The Long HaLLoween.” It foLLows many of the Batman/Joker comics without Landing on one. “The KiLLing Joke,” “Lovers and Madmen” most cLoseLy come to mind as they are at the beginning of Joker’s rise.
The Joker was introduced to the comics in 1940, a few months after ‘The Batman’ began. So that’s the first.
Tim Burton was inspired by “The Killing Joke” in which The Joker has a back story, which is very cLoseLy Linked to Burton’s vision for his Batman mocie. BUT, even though You hear this whoLe backstory, the Joker says “If i have a past i prefer it to be muLtipLe choice.” In this way we have to reaLise that Burton’s onLy reaL fauLt was not mentioning this in some way.
And no, It was not based that cLoseLy on “The Long HaLLoween.” It foLLows many of the Batman/Joker comics without Landing on one. “The KiLLing Joke,” “Lovers and Madmen” most cLoseLy come to mind as they are at the beginning of Joker’s rise.